What The Weird Numbers Mean in Jazz Chords

[mahayana]

Short answer. They are scale degrees of the scale the chord is in, counted from the tonic of the chord.

So, a C9 is a C chord with the 9th note of the scale added on.

C D E F G A B C D
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 9th note is a D

b5 is Gb, and so on.

I'll do some more explaining next post, kinds of chords, etc.

[mahayana]

Sorry if this seems too basic. Some people don't know the notes in their chords, they just play 'em. And that's OK.

There's a couple of ways to approach this. First is when you see a chord name and want to play it. If you can figure out the notes in it, you can make up your own chord forms.

Or if you make up a chord, you can name it. It's not hard.

Then again, "jazz chords" aren't all that easy to use, you can work on chord substituting a long time, still not sound right.

What do you think, should I just say 11ths are the same note as sus4, 13ths the same as the sixth note? Does everybody know what scale notes you change to make a major chord into a minor, diminished, augmented? You kind of need to know that before you "embellish." What the heck, memorize all the notes on the fretboard, too.

Any questions yet, comments?

[mahayana]

Deicide, at the Chord House forum writes

"Triads are the most fundamental and basic chords. Triad just means theres 3 notes (tri). Major chords, Minor chords, Diminished chords, And Augmented Chords. Thats all there is. Just 4 basic triad types. You should likely already know how to play major and minor triads, for its pretty much the 1st chords anyone learns. The intervalic formulas for the triads are as follows: 1 3 5 = Major Triad. 1 b3 5 = Minor Triad. 1 b3 b5 = Diminished Triad. 1 3 #5 = Augmented Triad. A lot of people seem to get rather intimidated by the terms diminished and augmented, but it is actually self explanatory. Diminished means to lower. Augment means to raise. Take a minor chord, lower the 5th and you get a diminished chord. Take a major chord, raise the 5th and you get an augmented chord. It really isnt that hard to concieve.
In turn, the more you learn about chords, the better chord progressions you're going to write. Learn how to play the basic triads around the guitar, then maybe worry about adding 7ths to the chords (should i even have mentioned that? Ha.)"

I found this at looknohands.com/ at our Multimedia, "chords and scales links" thread. Told you there are some good links here!

[mahayana]

Ok, the next step in reading a jazz chord is the sevenths. You already play them, I'm sure, if you've been playing guitar more than 5 minutes. The reason to know what notes they are is that 7ths are "implied" in embellished chords.

The "dominant" 7th is implied in most major chords, "major" 7th in most minor chords.

So, back to our C example, if it says C9 then not only is the 9th note from C (D) added but also the dominant 7th. Dominant 7th means b7 (who knows why?) so if you count up 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 in the scale CDEFGAB it's the B that's flatted. Bb is the dominant 7th. Two frets below tonic.

If it was a Cm9, the "major" 7th, which is the real 7th note in the scale, is implied in the chord. Always one fret below the tonic (first note) of the chord. So for Cm9, both the D (9th) and B (maj7) are notes of the chord. And of course minor means the 3rd is flatted (1, 2, 3 C,D,E i.e. Eb).

That's about all you need to know, if you followed OK. If not, the only bad question is the one you don't ask (something like that).

[Professor1]

mahayana said:

The "dominant" 7th is implied in most major chords, "major" 7th in most minor chords.

Umm...that's painting with a really broad brush, I'm not sure it's such a good generalization.

[mahayana]

Professor said:

Umm...that's painting with a really broad brush, I'm not sure it's such a good generalization.

Hi, Prof. Glad you have some more to add to this thread (it was just an attempt to explain some basics as simply as possible). On reflection, you are right that it's a bad generalization. Minor chords with dominant 7ths are more common, anything with a major 7th should say Maj in its name. What do you tell your students about Majmin chords?

[Professor1]

Well, it depends on the chart. You don't really want to be adding unintended extensions to the chords, because it's most likely not going to jive with the saxes or t-bones. Generally, as fast as some of the stuff goes by, there's plenty of wrong chords going on as it is. ;D No need to add extra errant harmony. Now, if it's a chord solo, then there's more latitude with the harmonies, and you can pick which notes to include/omit/or add.

[mahayana]

Who was it that said "there's no bad notes, only bad resolution"?

No, I know what you mean. Dissonances can get distracting pretty fast. I don't usually think of guitars at all in a big band setting, even a piano can make us seem puny. I would like to see some of your ideas for chord solos, it's a challenge to do more than a couple of measures at a time, and sound good, stay with the rhythm.

[Professor1]

I know what you mean about it being difficult. It's basically a different chord with almost every note, or at least a different inversion. Chord-Melody is probably the most difficult guitar style I've come across.(.....but classical is easy for me, and some people find the advanced repertoire pieces nearly impossible.)

I've got a few chord solos that I put together using 4 note drop 2 chords in the proper inversions to keep the melody on top. All The Things You Are makes a really interesting solo. Black Orpheus has about 100 chord changes, and it's a chore to memorize, but it sounds really cool. Any tune can be done up that way.

[kawe]

Hi Professor!
How about a short introduction into chord soloing for beginners?

kawe

[Professor1]

kawe said:

Hi Professor!
How about a short introduction into chord soloing for beginners?

kawe

Well, that's just it...it's not really a quick-and-dirty type of thing. Like I said before, it's an advanced technique. First off, though, learn the "Drop 2" and "Drop 3" systems of 4 note chord voicings. Then make yourself a set of chord charts for all of those chord shapes and inversions according to chord names and which note is in the top (melody) voice. You will use these when making out your arrangements of the tunes you want to work on.

For example, take a chart from the real book, it has melodies and chord names, it's a lead sheet. Then write down the chord diagrams that match the chords given, and have the melody notes in the highest voice. They won't always match, and sometimes you will have passing notes in your chords. 1 chord per note. Strum the chords in the right rhythm for the melody. Remember, it's 4 note chords, so: the 5th is often omitted unless altered, 9 replaces 1, 11 replaces 3, and 13 replaces 5.

Keep duct tape handy, in case you need to wrap it around your head to keep your brain from exploding. ;D

Oh yeah, try to have fun.

[kawe]

Thank you, Professor!

Could I simplify it like that:
(Almost) Each note a chord - melody "on top" - (chromatic) passing tones, when needed

[jazzalta]

Another thing to consider regarding chord melody: listen to what people like Joe Pass do with "standards" He doesn't necessarily harmonize every melody note.

[kawe]

That's a part of Kenny Burrell's Midnight Blue.
I think, it's a good example for what you said, Professor.

[mahayana]

Good discussion, should really be it's own thread over at Lessons/ Comping instead of in this one, which is about a different subject.

But, one more observation about chord-melody. It can be done a number of ways. Basically, if you are playing both the melody and a chord accompaniment, you are playing chord-melody. But the challenge is to play a chord for every note of the melody, and make the inversions you invent to accomplish this sound good together.

Practically speaking, you're stressing the melody notes in these strings of chords, and the notes between chords are also melody notes.

Now that I've cleared that up...LOL