Improvisation

[Robert G. Denman]

Hi, Shawn and members,

First of all let me say thanks to Shawn for placing me
as a moderator. I feel honored, m'lad.

I had placed an improvising post back a ways referring
members to my lesson on Improvising at Wholenote.com
I have always worked out of scales and altered
scales to create runs.

Another approach worth examining is that of
the late Charlie Christian. He played only 19 months
with Benny Goodman's groups, but impacted jazzers
for 60 years. CC died at age 25 of tuberculosis.

CC was not really trained a whole lot formally in music
theory but was a natural regarding improvising. Those
who studied his solos thoroughly on the old vinyl
records came to the comclusion that he improvised
over famliar chord shapes. The chord tones as well as the approach notes fall under the fingers. It can be
seen that these chord shapes are really a portion of
larger geometric scale fingering patterns.

I invite your attention to Garry Hansen's site honoring
Charlie Christian. Garry has a tutorial there on
basic improvising over chord shapes like CC did.
There is also another lesson on CC's favorite licks
which again are based on chord shapes.

Garry is a CC expert. Here is the link:

personal.nbnet.nb.ca/hansen/Charlie

At the start page-click on "Tutorial" and later on "Licks".
There are transcriptions of CC's solos done by Garry
and if you plan to spend some time there, you will
be richly rewarded. Charlie Christian was THE man on
guitar. His linearity and phrasing is not duplicated by
anyone since.

Go to it my friends and keep on pickin',

Robert

[arp]

Check out John Schofield's video "On Improviation."
An excellent starting course.

cheers.

[Matt]

Yes many people say you should sing your lines before you play them. I too am having some trouble with improvising. Im playing Big Dipper right now and my teacher told me to just do the arpeggio of each chord, but I feel like I have nowhere to go from there.

When you say the chord tones thats the same as the arp right? When I improvise this way it feels like I am playing the same thing every time I improvise.

My guitar teacher (one of the best jazzers in the midwest) helps me so much with improv. Its just like, he tells me the simplest things to play, like when I had to play "ive got rythm" for all state tryout, he told me to just do Bb major, Bb blues, Bb major. Its so simple and sounds so good. For some reason I improvise great when Im playing with him (and I improvise alot better on a classical guitar than in the big band setting...).

Basically I have always used scales for improv (usually pentatonic and then just chromaticize it). My big question is what is the difference between a mode and a scale??? I know songs like "So What" are modal, is this just because it is played over the D Dorian mode?? I really dont understand. I know the modes of major scale and I always thought they were just scales.

[nmcsm]

Modes are just scales, scales that are related to a particular key, or sonority within its intervallic system.

'So What' is a modal tune because the harmony is rather static, and is melodically linear. Tunes like 'Rhythm' are more vertical, lending themselves to arpeggiations more easily.

[Matt]

Ive heard alot of people say that they really dread soloing on modal songs. I prefer a static song over a rapid changing one anyday - it gives you a chance to really unfold your ideas and take the solo wehre you want, instead of just being dictated by whichever arpeggio is coming next. I feel like when I play off of chord tones that Im not really improvising, im just using the "rules of soloing"

[nickmatty]

I would recommend learning your Major scales in One octave. Most teachers teach scales in two octaves which I think is a bad idea. A Major scale has 7 notes. By playing your scales in one octave will help you become a much better improvisor. You won't sound "scaley". Also try to just play the Root, Maj2, Maj3 and Perfect 5th while soloing. Mix up the order. You will sound like you are playing jazz and not just running up and down scales. I also agree with some other responces to play just the chord tones. This is extremely important. I have a free lesson section on my website that has all the One octave Major scale patterns starting on every finger. I also have many lessons on arpeggio's as well. Check it out and let me know what you think? www.nickmatty.com. Take care.

[jazzalta]

Listen to others twice as much as you practice. Jazz is a language and as such has it's own rules or "cliches." A lot has been made of not playing prescribed licks but to me they are the gateway into this style if applied appropriately. We all learn by copying first (think child's first words). The more words, the better the conversation and we begin to think on our own. Theory has its place, but it should take a back seat to actually playing. The best way I know to get started is to record a simple 12 blues progression and start fitting licks/scales/patterns in. Just DON'T give up. We've all been there. It does get better.

[mahayana]

"Jazz is a language and as such has it's own rules or "cliches." A lot has been made of not playing prescribed licks but to me they are the gateway into this style if applied appropriately. We all learn by copying first (think child's first words). The more words, the better the conversation and we begin to think on our own."

I think you're on target here, JA. I'd love to play the things others are memorizing, add to the vocabulary. Making it easy to write out a few measures is a needed step, shouldn't be as hard as making up tab from scratch, like I did at that "Lenny Breau" thing I put in. You don't really have a lick until you memorize it, but just getting to try stuff that other people really like would be great.

[JerseyJazz]

The first thing I think you need to do is break whatever song you are playing down to its basic chord changes and key centers. What I mean is you need to take a tune and break all of the changes down to ii, V I relationships to get a sense of where the key changes are within the song. Knowing where you are in the song really allows you to open up your solos. Check out the post someone did called "Giant Steps." Whoever posted that broke the song down exactly the manner that I am describing. Once you know which keys the song features and where those key changes take place, you have more freedom to improvise over the chord changes.

Additionally, you don't have to limit yourself to just using the chord or scale tones over corresponding chord changes or key centers. It's usually a combination of chord and scale tones that make interesting melodies. The chord tones and scale tones will tend to be "stronger" tones within a given line and the passing tones, or tones outside the chord or scale would be used to add variety to the line. But knowing where those chord and scale tones are within a song is what gives you the freedom to play with adding passing tones to your solos to give them that variety that everyone strives for.

[jazzalta]

Well said JersyJazz.

[razamajazz]

Hey all. New Guy here.

One thing I like to do when I'm hitting the wall is to work on one chord. (Any chord will do, altered extended or just straight)

We'll say EV +9

I'll start with a 5 note scale or somthing and just move around the fretboard.

I'll add the +9 leave out the maj 3. Use em' both. Try using quarter notes only. Slowly go to 8th then 16th notes.

I think that by really looking at the individual tones in a harmonically static enviroment can help a lot when trying to break out of the "paint by numbers" stage.

(It did for me anyway.)

Cheers I like your forum guys!

[mahayana]

You have good taste, Raz.

Welcome to JG, and thanks for pulling this thread up again. I gotta look at some of the links put here by the founding fathers.

[oldtimer3739]

Try using the primary chord tones (3rds and 7ths) as targets for your improv. You can approch these tones many ways, in effect mix up rhythmic motifs, arpeggios, scales, intervals and chromatics to approach the primary chord tones. Start very slowly and make each note clear like a bell. Speed is very easy to achieve with repitition.

[oldtimer3739]

Try using the primary chord tones (3rds and 7ths) as targets for your improv. You can approch these tones many ways, in effect mix up rhythmic motifs, arpeggios, scales, intervals and chromatics to approach the primary chord tones. Start very slowly and make each note clear like a bell. Speed is very easy to achieve with repitition.