mahayana
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Post by mahayana on Feb 6, 2005 16:12:38 GMT -5
I thought it would be fun to have a more theoretical discussion of the famous Circle of Fifths, the basis for an excellent Misc.Lesson called Basic Stuff.
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mahayana
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ballads, small combo stuff
Posts: 693
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Post by mahayana on Feb 7, 2005 0:04:00 GMT -5
The above is the "Musicalisher Circul" first published in 1711 by Johann Heinichen, also in his book "Der Generalbass" in 1728. It illustrated that keys whose tonics are a perfect Fifth apart form a series which repeats at 12 steps (rather like the hours on a clock).
It's usually shown now more like
________C_______ ____F_______G___ _Bb___________D_ Eb_____________A __Ab__________E_ ____Db______B___ ________F#______ _______(Gb)______
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Post by slowpoke on Feb 8, 2005 0:24:31 GMT -5
so was old johann the originator of this idea?
well, at least the idea to write it down?
interesting
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mahayana
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Post by mahayana on Feb 8, 2005 1:35:25 GMT -5
Ja, he coined the name and published the first picture.
Now everyone who takes music lessons gets to hear about relationships between keys, and gets some explanation of the circle of fifths.
I first memorized it out of a William Fowler guitar lesson book. He draws it with the flat keys on the right side, calls it the circle of fourths.
________C_________ ___G________F_____ _D____________Bb__ A_______________Eb __E__________ Ab__ ____B-______Db____ ________Gb________ ________(F#)_______
Then goes on to explain that it's really a cycle of perfect fourths and fifths, in both directions. One of the odd facts about intervals is that if you measure up the staff (alphabetical order) from C to F, it's CDEF (perfect 4th), but if you measure down the staff, it's CBAGF (perfect fifth). ABCDE is a perfect fifth, AGFE a perfect 4th.
Isn't music theory wonderful?
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mahayana
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ballads, small combo stuff
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Post by mahayana on Feb 8, 2005 18:24:13 GMT -5
So, what good is the Circle of Fifths? Why is everybody told that they should memorize it? Anybody else want to take a shot at this?
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Post by Professor1 on Feb 8, 2005 19:43:40 GMT -5
Well, for one thing, it's the order of sharps and flats. (Yes, it does matter where you put them.) It is also useful in analyzing tonal harmony and chord functions. Modulation is also based on the circle of fifths. Lots of stuff you wouldn't really consciously think about is based on the circle of fifths, like the whole II-V-I thingy and other "hateful practices".
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Post by jazzalta on Feb 8, 2005 19:54:24 GMT -5
Whoa prof, I think we get it.
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mahayana
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Post by mahayana on Feb 8, 2005 20:05:37 GMT -5
From my experience, keyboard players get it better than guitarists. Old Johann was a lawyer who played harpsichord. How this thing applies to jazz guitar is what I'm really looking at.
One of my friends, who's an excellent guitarist (session player), asked me what the circle of fifths is. Funny, huh?
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Post by jazzalta on Feb 8, 2005 20:41:05 GMT -5
Pretty much anyone who has studied any theory at all will know about the "circle." It's very common knowledge, and quite essential for jazzers.
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mahayana
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Post by mahayana on Feb 8, 2005 21:12:14 GMT -5
I'd like to discuss the Prof's observations. They are right-on.
First, Circle of Fifths is used to teach about sharps and flats. When you make lists of the sharp keys and flat keys, it seems obvious that there is a cycle. JH just drew it as a circle. I've seen it drawn as a spiral also.
So, the circle shows something simple about keys:
#s or flats-0-1#-2#-3#-4#-5#-6#
key-------C--G--D--A--E--B---F#(Gb)-Db-Ab-Eb-Bb-F
---------------------------------6b--5b-4b-3b-2b-1b
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mahayana
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Post by mahayana on Feb 9, 2005 7:49:50 GMT -5
Being able to answer questions like "which key has 5 #s?" or "which key has 4 flats?" may not seem like a great reason to memorize the Circle of Fifths.
But how about being able to name the notes across any fret? You get this from knowing the letter pattern going backwards around the COF and it's easy to remember.
Just draw the thing backwards (like Fowler suggests above) and you'll see the word BEAD followed by G, two times. Write the whole pattern down a couple of times and you'll know it.
On your guitar, any fret has the notes in this pattern from low string to high string, like
______________________ B___E___A___D_________ ________________G___C_
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Post by Professor1 on Feb 9, 2005 16:45:35 GMT -5
Knowledge of the circle of fifths is actually useful to guitar players. Think about modulation. Most of the time, the first accidentals you see will be flat 7 or sharp 4. That's because the closest places to modulate to are IV and V. Another very close place is the relative minor, ie. C to A minor. Or if you start in minor, the parallel major (III), ie. C minor to E flat. Knowing the circle also tells you where you might go next and why.
I'll be here all week. Try the veal. ;D
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mahayana
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ballads, small combo stuff
Posts: 693
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Post by mahayana on Mar 9, 2008 10:02:10 GMT -5
The easiest way to learn the notes on the fretboard is by knowing the circle of fifths backwards. Makes it simple to name the notes across any fret. I hinted at that earlier.
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Post by scraggo on Jun 12, 2009 10:46:59 GMT -5
The circle of fifths is the rosetta stone for understanding which scales have which notes in common. At the top of the circle is C major. G major, to the right, has 1 sharp. The other 6 notes are exactly those in C major. G major is the V key of C major, and C lydian shares the same notes as G major. On the other side of C is F major. It has 1 flat, the rest of the notes are the same as C major. F major is the IV key of C, and C mixolydian shares the same notes as F. The way modes and scales along the COF are related are kewl.
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