New user please be nice! Minor7thb5 = half dimishe

[Beatnik11]

I think I discoverd that a minor 7th b5 chord is the same as a half dimished chord! True or false? It's just named differently in the context it is used.

[El Hombre]

You are correct.

[Professor1]

Yes, minor 7 flat 5 is in fact the incorrect way to name a half diminished chord.

Remembering that chords are stacked thirds, a minor 7th chord has a minor 3rd, a major 3rd, and a minor 3rd; like DFAC. Lowering the A to A flat gives you a diminished triad; A minor third and a minor third, but still with the dominant 7, a major 3rd above a flat.

[mahayana]

I learned about half-diminished chords way back in Music101, with the Major Harmonized scale. Easiest to show with a piano, and the C major scale.

What you do is play a 4 note chord, triad plus the note a third above, on every note of the scale. Each chord contains only notes in the scale. The first chord is C E G B (Cmaj7), second is D F A C (Dm7), third is E G B D (Em7), so on up the scale. The only chord that sounds weird is the one based on the 7 note, B D F A. That's the half-diminished one.

Now,

B7 is B D# F# A

Bm7 is B D F# A (you flatted the 3rd to make it minor)

Bm7b5 is B D F A (you flatted both 3rd and 5th)

Same notes as B half-diminished.

[mahayana]

At the risk of making the answer more complicated than what the asker requires (sorry, beatnik11), it should be said that these are "half-diminished seven" chords.

"a half-diminished seventh chord contains a diminished chord (diminished=1,b3,b5) within it.
We can think of a half-diminished seventh chord as a diminished chord with an added minor seventh note."

from members.aol.com/snglstring2/chords/halfdim7.html

And, no one has mentioned the difference between half-diminished seven and diminished seven chords, which is

1 b3 b5 b7= half-diminished 7

1 b3 b5 bb7=diminished 7

[bluemorris]

I have a short lesson on "half-diminished" chords you can download in PDF form from my band's website at:

www.bluemorris.com/swing/index.php?itemid=20&catid=4

I hope it helps,
Blue

[ubiguitar]

Even if m7b5 and halfdiminished chords have same notes... they are different chords. The first one is an altered minor chord and the second one is an altered diminished chord.
Differences derive from their functional meaning and so by their source scale and role.
In modern music it is really rare to found an halfdiminished chord: usually it could be #IV-(b5) in progressions like V7 #IV-(b5) (deceptive resolution) usually it is interpreted as a modal interchange from (I) Lydian and that scale is suggested.
The VII-(b5) is an altered minor chord and requires Locrian mode
The II-(b5) chord for minor cadence (II-(b5) V7(b9) I-), is another typical example of altered minor chord (you can use harmonic minor).

if you're not interested in functional analysis you can consider them as a single item.

PS: Proposed scales are only one of possible...all depends from your intention.

Ale

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