Original keys

[namaste]

How many of you arrange in original keys? I use the Real Book exclusively and try to match the keys. Of course, I am assuming the Real Book publishes the original key. There is the odd song tho where I utilize open chords, but only as an alternative to the original. And there are a few tunes that are quite difficult to manuever in the original. Thoughts?

[morjaz]

I've done all my arranging in tabledit using the charts from Guitar Masters....and using their keys.
However if it comes to singing I'll alter the key a few times until it's comfortable.
I will,however,alter the keys for future arranging if I feel
it's going to be easier or better sounding to play.
So much stuff is presented in Eb. Why is that?Is that a cooler key for some reason?

[Professor]

I actually prefer original keys. The composers often spend a great deal of effort on choosing the correct key for an individual composition. As far as arranging is concerned...it's a re-interpretation, so the new composer can change keys if there is a valid reason. As far as changing keys just for a lazy singer, I'm absolutely opposed to it. Often, the particular thing that makes a song special is lost when it is transposed into an "easier" key to sing. "Lost in Translation" is not an insignificant phenomenon, it's criminal.

[morjaz]

Well sorry Prof....... ....I actually don't consider myself a lazy singer.....I take it reasonably seriously...and,if I can't manage a song in one key I'll certainly try another ..and if that works I'll keep it.I don't really see the criminality about it.I thought jazz was about interpretation,reinvention,improvisation.....that kind of thing."Lost in Translation"?...I don't think changing key would necessarily do that.
In arranging/reinterpretation what would the "valid" reasons be for changing key?
If the audience enjoys the version,vocal or otherwise,would that make it valid?
On the other hand I appreciate that your comments are about protecting integrity and maintaining standards of musicianship.
For myself,I enjoy playing music and having fun in doing so but I see that on more than one occasion I have outraged your sensiblities,and,not wishing to undermine the seriousness of"jazz guitar"I wont post anymore.
Bye

[Professor]

Wait a minute! I haven't read anything on this forum that "outraged my sensibilities". Quite the opposite, I like a spirited discussion. No one has to agree with me...almost no one ever does. If you don't want to post anymore, that's fine, but to blame it on me is a cop-out.

[mahayana]

I read an article once that argued that "The Star-Spangled Banner" was written in the wrong key for the human voice. Anyone can sing it if you transpose to "G"...or something to that effect.

I've learned lots of songs from the sheet music, and stick with the key, but also learned lots from playing in the key the song was played in on the original recording (which often isn't the same as the published sheet music). But like morjaz, when you're the singer, it's much better to get the thing in your range than to strain for high notes or have to change octaves (which really does alter the way it was intended).

Some of my favorite songs change keys repeatedly. Which is easy on guitar. Of course, the most common saxophones are called "Eb" and "Bb", nuff said.

[morjaz]

Dammit....here I am posting again.... ;D
To point out Prof.......an example of where I outraged you before was in the use of classical Bach being used in a jazz fashion.
I appreciate a "spirited discussion" too.....alright...I accept that you're challenging.
In fact you're probably right ... I probably am a bit lazy and a bit criminal .....Happy Xmas

[morjaz]

Mahayana,...are you saying that charts get made out to make them sax-friendly?Like Eb?(I haven't seen many in Bb)
BTW a big difference beween Prof and myself is the business of reading music......I haven't used a music stand in a long time....and when I did it was just chord guide shorthand.
I doubt that I will ever be able to play off sheet music.
This being another reason why I am flexible with keys.
I do a lot of chart perusing at home and work out stuff with the rest of the band at practise sessions.By the time we get to the gig we have the structures down.
I'm always trying to absorb and understand more theory
but it's slow going and I just do the best I can with in the boundaries of what I know......A lot of the stuff comes out ok..........it's all fun(I think)

[mahayana]

Yeah, I think of flat keys as "horn" keys. Guitarists learn "sharp" keys first- easy guitar keys are C, G, D, A, and E. When you play a "C" scale (no sharps or flats being fingered) on an alto sax, the notes that come out are really a Bb scale. On a tenor sax, the notes of the "C" scale come out Eb. An alto sax is fingering an "F" scale (one flat) to play in Eb.

Now that I've cleared that up, lol.

[Professor]

If you really want to freak out the horn players, hand out a chart in A major. I play with alot of really old guys and they will refuse to play it and hand it back in in less time than it took me to type this.

[dogletnoir]

Short answer: yes, i try to stick to the keys as written.
To me, each key has a different feel or flavor... & when i figure out a set list, i'm thinking of tempos,
chord progressions, & key changes from song to song in order to create a flow... for example, I wouldn't play
Makin' Whoopee & Ain't Misbehavin' in the same set because they have similar chord progressions & tempos
even tho' we play one in G major & the other in E flat. Altho' now i'm thinking it could make a nice medley...
There are a lot of Jazz tunes which are played in G, a lot in E flat, quite a few in B flat, some in A flat,
but the Prof is right about A major, most horn players hate that key & avoid it like the plague !
On the rare occasions i feel tempted to sing something, i do it on a song that suits my vocal register rather than change the key to fit my voice.
But that's me... the fact that i do it doesn't make it right or wrong, just the way i do....

[dogletnoir]

"There are a lot of Jazz tunes which are played in G, a lot in E flat, quite a few in B flat, some in A flat... "
( & i forgot 2 mention F major, as well as their relative minors )