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Post by morjaz on Feb 6, 2006 15:28:06 GMT -5
For anyone learning jazz guitar, chord substitution is essential . I hope in this thread people will throw in their ideas on how subsitutions are made and how they can work for you.
Starting with tritone substitution......
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Post by morjaz on Feb 6, 2006 18:14:16 GMT -5
For a dominant 7th chord you can substitute another dom 7th. three whole tones away from the original dom 7 root.So if you are playing G7 you can substitue a Db7.
In a ii v i progression this would be like Dm7,Db7,C .(Instead of Dm7,G7,C)
That Db7 chord is a fifth away from the G7, but lowered by a semitone.....hence - flat 5 (b5 sub).
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Post by morjaz on Feb 6, 2006 18:22:37 GMT -5
The tritone (b5)sub is explained in more detail on numerous other sites.I've just shown a minimal practical application.
Anybody please feel free to elaborate on the theory of tritone subbing.
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Post by morjaz on Feb 7, 2006 16:25:46 GMT -5
If a chord has two or more notes that are the same as in another chord,those chords can potentially substitute for each other.
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Post by morjaz on Feb 7, 2006 16:36:28 GMT -5
Why would you bother to substitute ?
By subsituting different types of chords to the ones in the original progression you create a different style of progression...and create different situations for soloing over.
You can take an easy progression and make it complex.
It's fun.
By working through the process you increase your knowledge of jazz guitar.
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Post by Professor on Feb 7, 2006 23:18:28 GMT -5
Playing in a big band rhythm section, I get very little chance to use substitutions. The tritone sub you gave could very well clash with the rest of the arrangement, since it only has one common tone with the original chord. I generally try not to play stuff that will make the trumpet section throw plungers at me. ;o)
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Post by morjaz on Feb 8, 2006 3:42:10 GMT -5
A plunger in the eye wouldn't be very nice..  I appreciate that when one is playing from strict arrangements you should stick to the program.Good point. So with the subs we're more talking chord/melody and improv situations. Or,in fact,constructing an arrangement that then becomes the one to follow strictly. |
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Post by morjaz on Feb 8, 2006 15:50:55 GMT -5
A common sub is to replace a dom7 with a minor 7 that is a fifth above the dominant.
i.e. a D7 gets to be replaced with an Am7.
This is a common sub.and I use it all the time.Try it with a 12 bar blues.....Play four bars of A7 and then instead of going to the D7 play the Am7 instead.
Play some Am pentatonic runs over the D7 and you'll see further how it can work for you
Also in the ii v i progression...Instead of Dm7/G7/C...you could put in an extra Dm7(orDm6)to replace the G7...making it Dm7/Dm7/C....or...Dm7/Dm7-G7/C
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Post by morjaz on Feb 8, 2006 16:03:37 GMT -5
Please feel free to jump in and add to this thread.Chord subsitution is a big area to explore.
There are 426 members to date on the forum.Why not make a post?It's what the forum is here for
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Post by slowpoke on Feb 9, 2006 0:03:40 GMT -5
Playing in a big band rhythm section, I get very little chance to use substitutions. The tritone sub you gave could very well clash with the rest of the arrangement, since it only has one common tone with the original chord. I generally try not to play stuff that will make the trumpet section throw plungers at me. ;o) Are you talking about the example he gave substituting Db7 for G7? If so, aren't F and B in both chords? Aren't those two common tones they share? I'm sorry I can't really contribute to this thread, the most I substitute chords is just leaving out the root or finding chords with common shapes and chaning it a little. It's pretty novice but I'm still working on being able to play straight through changes and not sound like a complete clod  . |
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Post by Professor on Feb 9, 2006 23:54:53 GMT -5
Are you talking about the example he gave substituting Db7 for G7? If so, aren't F and B in both chords? Aren't those two common tones they share? Slowpoke, Yes, I was, and no, they don't. The first chord: G7 consists of G, B, D, and F.......the second chord Dflat7 contains Dflat, F, Aflat, and Cflat. |
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Post by slowpoke on Feb 10, 2006 12:58:22 GMT -5
Isn't that a little too theoretical? I mean, do you really say that Cflat and B are different tones?
I wanna get where you're coming from. When I play the two I hear the difference but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to be listeing to it.
These are the chords I was playing
G7 3x34
and
Db7 x434
if you put in the fifth like you say
3x343x
x434x4
they actually sound closer together
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Post by Professor on Feb 10, 2006 17:48:21 GMT -5
I know Cflat and B are the same, I was pullin' yer leg.
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Post by slowpoke on Feb 10, 2006 18:11:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I was more wondering if you considered them different tones in the context of the chord or something.
;D It's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too easy to pull my leg on the internet. I think I take things too seriouslly sometimes.
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Post by morjaz on Feb 13, 2006 15:01:11 GMT -5
Another way of substituting new chords for old is to extend the original chords
Original chords of major,minor and dominant seventh can be extended to 9th,11th and 13th.
This post deals with the dom 7th which when extended are also altered chromatically up or down a half step so that we can take the original....let's say C7 and extend it to
C7b9......C,E,G,Bb,Db
C7#9.......C,E,G,Bb,D#
C7#11......C,E,G.Bb,D,F#
C7b13........C,E,G,Bb,D,F,A
I should point out that you cant just make any old substitution using these chords and have it sounding cool in the progression.It'll take experimetation with the way you voice the chords.....and thought must go into voice-leading..the way one chord leads to the next..and to the next etc
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